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Why China Can't Lure Tech Talent (bloomberg.com) 219

Posted by msmash from the explain-like-I-am-5 dept.
China may have been hoping to attract tech talent to its nation, but it is unlikely that people in the tech industry will move there. A columnist at Bloomberg explains why: The biggest problem is government control of the internet. For a software developer, the inconvenience goes well beyond not being able to access YouTube during coffee breaks. It means that key software libraries and tools are often inaccessible. In 2013, China blocked Github, a globally important open-source depository and collaboration tool, thereby forcing developers to seek workarounds. Using a virtual private network to "tunnel" through the blockades is one popular option. But VPNs slow uploads, downloads and collaboration. And it isn't just developers who suffer. Among the restricted sites in China is Google Scholar, a tool that indexes online peer-reviewed studies, conference proceedings, books and other research material into an easily accessible format. It's become a crucial database for academics around the world, and Chinese researchers -- even those with VPNs -- struggle to use it. The situation grew so dire this summer that several state-run news outlets published complaints from Chinese scientists, with one practically begging the nationalist Global Times newspaper: "We hope the government can relax supervision for academic purposes." The cumulative impact of these restrictions is significant. Scientists unable to keep up with what researchers in other countries are publishing are destined to be left behind, which is one reason China is having difficulty luring foreign scholars to its universities. Programmers who can't take advantage of the sites and tools that make development a global effort are destined to write software customized solely for the Chinese market. The author has raised several other reasons to make his case.
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Why China Can't Lure Tech Talent

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  • How strange (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:33PM (#53476681)
    I would never have thought that people with good educations and job prospects wouldn't want to move to a country with totalitarian control of your daily life. Next you're going to tell me North Korea has similar problems.

    • Dixie cups (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tomhath ( 637240 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:51PM (#53476837)

      I suspect the people being recruited are concerned that the goal is to transfer the expertise they have to Chinese engineers/scientists. Once that transfer is done the foreigner will no longer have any value.

    • Re:How strange (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Malc ( 1751 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @08:02PM (#53480039)

      I've lived in Shanghai and the most eye opening part about it is was how spectacularly wrong my American colleagues were about China. Before I left to live there, I was told how Communist it was, how dangerous it was, how there was no freedom. What I found was a country that is way more capitalist than the US and people pretty much leading the life they wanted. There are so many things that squash your freedom in the West but you don't notice it because you've known no better,

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Still when it comes to luring employees, countries are competing. So not whether it is reasonable in China but how well it competes against other employment centres. So for China, logically relocating tech companies seeking to bring in foreign employees to Hainan https://www.lonelyplanet.com/c... [lonelyplanet.com] makes sense. Employment conditions and wages will not drive recruitment, lifestyle when not at work will. At the end of the day, sticking to this list makes the most sense for employers and employees http://www.eco [economist.com]

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by mjwx ( 966435 )

        I've lived in Shanghai and the most eye opening part about it is was how spectacularly wrong my American colleagues were about China. Before I left to live there, I was told how Communist it was, how dangerous it was, how there was no freedom. What I found was a country that is way more capitalist than the US and people pretty much leading the life they wanted. There are so many things that squash your freedom in the West but you don't notice it because you've known no better,

        Whilst I agree that Americans tend to swallow a lot of propaganda about China that is horribly incorrect (yep, China is communist in name only and provided you don't rock the boat you can get away with a lot), Shanghai and Hong Kong are oddities amongst China because of the high levels of foreign activities in these cities, even after the PLA took Shanghai in 1947, Beijing never really controlled it and still don't to a large degree. Beijing are content to leave Shanghai to it's own devices as long as they

      • This is a country where science is repeatedly faked, and where Qigong practitioners are imprisoned and harvested for organs. I've talked to people in the US who have worked for Chinese companies: - Amazon-scale expectation of uncompensated overtime - Yelling and threatening is routine and accepted - Travel expenses are not reimbursed - Ridicule of religious, spiritual, and ethical practices is tolerated and encouraged. In short, it's almost as though Trump runs them. I'm sure there are exceptions, but t

  • Also, the pollution (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:33PM (#53476687)

    I went to Beijing and it was pollution hell. Couldn't see further than 50 feet in front of you somedays.

    • Don't worry. Trump will restore Los Angeles to its former smoggy glory.

    • I went to Beijing and it was pollution hell. Couldn't see further than 50 feet in front of you somedays.

      I went to Guangzhou and it was quite nice.

      YMMV.

  • The real reason (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The real reason is that no one wants to live in China. They also have been offering huge amounts of money to athletes. Any athlete with any other option won't go. The pollution alone will lower your lifespan.

  • Are they trying to? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ugen ( 93902 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:35PM (#53476701)

    I am not sure they are really trying too hard in the first place. I speak Mandarin (have been studying for many years), have a good resume and appropriate technical background, and spent substantial time in China to have a general idea of how things are - yet I have never been able to attract interest of any Chinese company. Given what I know about their local tech workforce, that's not at all surprising. They have excellent pool of well qualified candidates.

    That's not to say that article does not bring good points - internet use in China is encumbered and painful. But that's has little to do with "attracting tech talent".

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      They said tech "talent".

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        They said tech "talent".

        http://www.npr.org/sections/th... [npr.org]
        From the linked article:

        And it turns out that the job done in China was above par - the employee's "code was clean, well written, and submitted in a timely fashion. Quarter after quarter, his performance review noted him as the best developer in the building," according to the Verizon Security Blog.

        All told, it looked like he earned several hundred thousand dollars a year, and only had to pay the Chinese consulting firm about fifty grand annually," according to the Security Blog.

        Maybe they're not the best of the best, but neither are most slashdotters or coder either. These bunch are probably better and cheaper than most of you here.

      • Re:Are they trying to? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by pablo_max ( 626328 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @03:36PM (#53477841)

        Same here. I have a strong telecom background. Lived in Shanghai with my wife for 3 year. Looked for a job for the 7 months. Nothing.
        I ended up teaching English at a private school and private lessons. I made 3 times what doing that as what I was paid as an engineer in the states.
        There was some downsides, to be sure.
        1. Stalkers. Seriously, some of those girls were certifiable. Never imagined I would have to deal with that.
        2. The environment is dirty. You walk down the street and it looks nice and tidy. Looks past the bushes and you can see where all the garbage went.
        3. The air is pretty dirty. I would run every day and I would be blowing black out of my nose the entire day.
        4. The crowds are not for everyone. Seriously, it is crowed on the metro. And loads of the people do not know about deodorant.
        5. Naked capitalism. People in the US like to think that they live in a capitalist society. Bullshit. You don't. China, is the most capitalist place I have ever been. If you were on fire, someone come over and try to sell you a bucket of water. They would never through it on you though. You would need to pay someone else to do that. It is pure capitalism without regard for anything else. That is the reason their environment is so F'ed up.

        Having said that, I enjoyed living in China. I do not think I could ever live there again purely from the health point of view. But, by and large the people treated me well and I had a lot of fun. For now, I think I will stick to Germany.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Malc ( 1751 )

          I lived there in 2008 and had an amazing time too. Did you ever read Peter Hessler's "River Town: Two Years on the Yangtze"? Pretty much captured my experience and daily frustrations until I started figuring it out.

    • Re:Are they trying to? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:59PM (#53476935)

      I am not sure they are really trying too hard in the first place. I speak Mandarin (have been studying for many years), have a good resume and appropriate technical background, and spent substantial time in China to have a general idea of how things are - yet I have never been able to attract interest of any Chinese company.

      I am in a situation very similar to you and have been actually interviewing to some Chinese companies and also know people working in those. I am very confident that China is actually trying to lure tech talent from abroad, but they prefer people who have worked in big companies and do not speak Chinese. The reason for the first is that they are very interested in the information they can get from their competitors and use for their advantage, and the reason for the second is that their own company internal information is all in Chinese and they don't want these same employees to leak that to their foreign competitors.

      So to put it short, they want to leech information out of their competition by hiring their ex-workers in any ways possible, but at the same time make sure that they are not leaking out anything. And the fact that you speak Mandarin and understand the Chinese culture to some extent makes you a unattractive candidate. It's much safer to hire Chinese candidates for the basic jobs and hire foreigners (who speak no Chinese) to the positions where they have serious need to catch up.

      I would love to find out I'm just making this all up as a big conspiracy theory, but I have a bit too much stories and examples to support my assertion...

    • I am not sure they are really trying too hard in the first place. I speak Mandarin (have been studying for many years), have a good resume and appropriate technical background, and spent substantial time in China to have a general idea of how things are - yet I have never been able to attract interest of any Chinese company. Given what I know about their local tech workforce, that's not at all surprising. They have excellent pool of well qualified candidates.

      I've been to China too and I've seen ads placed in English in major foreign newspapers that seem willing to theoretically hire foreigners, but a problem with almost all of these is that they have additional requirements that almost impossible for a foreigner to meet. For example, you can't just speak Mandarin and English but you have to also be fluent or really close to it in Cantonese or Shanghaiese. If a foreigner really knew all those languages they might really have a chance to be hired, but you can

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by slew ( 2918 )

        The requirement for Shanghainese or Cantonese for some jobs in China is similar to the requirement for knowing Spanish in the USA. For some jobs, you will never know what is *really* going on if you don't know the language people curse at each other in and you will be completely ineffective.

        For front-office jobs that are populated by token "whites", generally knowing a little Mandarin (Putonghua) is enough. They don't really want you to know too much about what is really going on anyways...

  • Also, the native language sucks (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Tone-based languages are a terrible idea; now, add to that a logographic writing system, and you've got a real cluster fuck!

    The Information Age has no time for such nonsense.

    • Re:Also, the native language sucks (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mal-2 ( 675116 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @02:15PM (#53477069) Homepage Journal

      Tonal languages are not, in and of themselves, an inherently bad idea. It's just one more parameter which can be used to add information density without having to rush the actual mechanics of the speaker. The fact that some people are tone-deaf may pose a problem, just like the fact that some people are color-blind makes color coding a troublesome way to transmit critical information.

      The character set used is not necessarily tied to this – it would be perfectly workable to retain the character set but speak a non-tonal language, and it is perfectly workable to write a tonal language in a phonetic alphabet. It just takes a lot of diacritical marks. If keeping the density high is an important goal, Hangul retains that feature while using a phonetic system by forming the characters into blocks representing syllables.

      The most telling argument against change is that with the vast majority able to read and write, it would take a very large investment to change the writing system. Hangul did it in an era where most people couldn't read – the investment was correspondingly smaller, and it was the right move at the right time. Another argument is that even as languages drift or even have completely different origins, the writing system remains comprehensible to all users Such is not necessarily the case with phonetic languages – given enough time, what's written and what's spoken will diverge even if the spelling made perfect sense at the time it was codified. So maybe the thought process is:

      1. It will take a lot of time and money.
      2. It will break the means of communication between the multiple languages spoken in the country.
      3. It will only provide temporary benefits.
      4. The status quo puts up a significant barrier to foreign meddling.

      Don't underestimate the power of the fourth one.

      • Tone deaf people can speak and understand Chinese. If you take all of the tones away a sentence can be understood, you just have to listen harder. The tones are essentially removed when singing.

      • The character set used is not necessarily tied to this

        . Korea and Japan have used Chinese characters at some point in their histories and theirs are not tonal languages. Vietnam too but I think that is a tonal language.

    • tell that to the people who think having a convo in all emojis is normal

    • China's dialects and writing systems work quite well. They're just optimized in slightly different ways than English.

      English has lots of what computer scientists would call "forward error correction" -- you can really, REALLY fuck up and mangle English, yet still be understood. In contrast, you could say that Chinese has built-in spatial & temporal data compression... at the expense of error-tolerance.

      For an understanding of how tones work, think about all the different meanings the word "fuck" can have

  • No green cards, No ownership (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:45PM (#53476791)

    I lived in China for a year. I loved it. I love the culture, I love the country side. Even the pollution can be handled with a decent apartment with good window seals and air scrubbers. They people are fine (let's face it, all countries have great people and terrible people). But, the reason I, as a software engineer, won't go back: no green cards and you can't own property or start a business. Maybe when your 25 years old, the lack of unfettered internet is the worst thing you can think of. But, as you get older, you become more risk adverse. Why would I invest a life in a country where I cannot be granted permanent residence, even if I marry a citizen? [youtube.com] I wouldn't; that's foolish.

    • China has a green card program. You were misinformed. Maybe you thought that just because you had a temporary job that you could stay there for the rest of your life? No. You teach Chinese people how to do your job, afterwards why does China need you? Try to think logically.

  • Do they need to? (Score:3, Funny)

    by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:45PM (#53476795)

    I mean, this is China. They just copy the talent they already have. :)

    *ducks and runs*

  • Is stackoverflow blocked? (Score:5, Funny)

    by FictionPimp ( 712802 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:48PM (#53476819) Homepage

    As long as stackoverflow isn't blocked I can still get everyone else to write my code, so I'm good!

  • You will always be a foreigner (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GuB-42 ( 2483988 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:50PM (#53476833)

    From what I heard it is impossible to be treated like one of them if you don't look Chinese, even if you speak perfect Mandarin, socialize and marry a local, etc...
    Permanent visas, let alone citizenship, are extremely difficult to get and some places don't accept foreigners.
    I suppose this gets on your nerves after some time.

    • That's true for every single country on the planet except America. You can live in France for 40 years, does that make you a Frenchman? If you live in Iran for 40 years, do you become Persian? And yet you live in Somalia your entire life, come to America and immediately granted refugee citizenship, bam you're American and anyone who says otherwise is a xenophobic racist America First asshole.

      • Re: You will always be a foreigner (Score:5, Informative)

        by Higaran ( 835598 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @02:15PM (#53477061)
        That has always amazed me about other countries, I was born in Poland, but have grown up in the US from a very young age. When ever I go back to Poland, I only get treated by people I know closely like a local, but I consider myself an american. When every I go anywhere touristy I most people speak english to me before I've ever said a word. In the US after a few years you can become a citizen, in many other countries it takes generations, in the US everyone comes from somewhere else originally so it doesn't matter where you were from as long as you want to be and are a citizen now, I guess.
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • I think that you are wrong about this.

            It can take decades to get a green card, but once you have a green card, it's just 5 years residence in the USA required before you can apply for citizenship. I don't think that the time to get US citizenship is particularly dependent on your country of origin, or current citizenship.

            Depending on who you are, or perhaps what day of the week you apply, you may find that the FBI takes more time to approve your application for citizenship. My wife's application went throug

          • It is 5 years with a green card to get citizenship. Getting the green card can reasonably take another two years for marriage, employment, etc; the green card lottery is another matter.

            Most other countries require a very long time to get citizenship, although there are a few exceptions (Panama, St. Lucia, St. Kitts, Dominican Republic, etc).

            • Getting the green card can reasonably take another two years for marriage, employment, etc;

              Depending on current nationality. I think that they are currently processing green card applications from about 2005 for Indian nationals.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Nemyst ( 1383049 )
        Did you even read beyond the comment title? You can get citizenship in France and any other Western country quite easily (well ok, maybe not the UK in the future). Discrimination on a cultural or ethnic basis is illegal in most of those places as well.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by TheSync ( 5291 )

        If you are an American living and working legally in France for five years, or you are married to or were born to a French citizen, you may apply for French citizenship.

        If youâ(TM)ve successfully completed two years of higher education in France, the five-year residency period can be reduced to two years.

    • Re:You will always be a foreigner (Score:4, Interesting)

      by the gnat ( 153162 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @02:43PM (#53477299)

      Veering slightly off-topic here, but in addition to what you said, the limitations on internal migration (for Chinese citizens) are absolutely insane by Western standards. Imagine that you couldn't attend school or obtain a driver's license or even legally reside in California despite being born there because your parents were "registered" as Illinois residents and moved without permission. As someone who rarely has to deal with any government agency more oppressive than the local DMV office, I can't imagine living in a country with that level of control over my life, even if they were handing out citizenship papers freely.

    • Re:You will always be a foreigner (Score:4, Informative)

      by TheSync ( 5291 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:28PM (#53479327) Journal

      Indeed, China has 1,448 naturalised Chinese in total. Almost no foreigners are able to become citizens.

      Even Japan, better known for hostility to immigration, naturalises around 10,000 new citizens each year; in America the figure is some 700,000.

  • If I had one wish this holiday season... (Score:3)

    by Pseudonymous Powers ( 4097097 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:52PM (#53476869)

    1. People don't like to move.
    2. People especially don't like to move someplace far away.
    3. People especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country.
    4. People especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.
    5. People especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution.

    To me, that seems like that should be enough reasons. But okay, sure:

    6. People especially especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution AND the government won't let you go to all the internet sites you might want to.

    • 1. People don't like to move.

      2. People especially don't like to move someplace far away.

      3. People especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country.

      4. People especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.

      5. People especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution.

      To me, that seems like that should be enough reasons. But okay, sure:

      6. People especially especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution AND the government won't let you go to all the internet sites you might want to.

      7. People especially especially especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution AND the government won't let you go to all the internet sites you might want to AND you can get thrown in Jail for no reason at all and left to rot until you die...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gmack ( 197796 )

      1. People don't like to move. 2. People especially don't like to move someplace far away. 3. People especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country. 4. People especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture. 5. People especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution.

      To me, that seems like that should be enough reasons. But okay, sure:

      6. People especially especially especially especially especially don't like to move someplace far away in another country where they don't speak the language and they have a completely different cuisine and culture.and where you have to live in a tiny apartment in an overcrowded city with really bad air pollution AND the government won't let you go to all the internet sites you might want to.

      You don't have an actual point until #5. For 1-4 Speak for yourself. Many people like to experience other places and cultures and foods. And I know people who change jobs and countries every few years just for the enjoyment of trying something new.

      Not everyone is boring.

      • You don't have an actual point until #5. For 1-4 Speak for yourself. Many people like to experience other places and cultures and foods. And I know people who change jobs and countries every few years just for the enjoyment of trying something new.

        Not everyone is boring.

        Sure. But most people are. That's what makes them boring, if you think about it. If everybody was a thrill-seeker, it's the homebodies who would be the exciting and exotic ones.

        Mind blown, right?

    • Good news, in China you don't need to speak the language or anything. Computer translation makes learning Chinese a quaint oddity. Moreover in Beijing you can live quite comfortably inside foreign enclaves. Much like Chinese in America live among their own people and never mix with the locals. It's easy, just spend your time browsing facebook, playing Xbox and watching Netflix. Just like life back home.

  • Because living in China is a nightmare (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @01:54PM (#53476883)

    No sane person would subject him- or herself to living under an authoritarian regime with little freedom of speech, which is horribly overcrowded, and where breathing the air can literally kill you, where the food is generally horrendous, where grown adults spit all over the place, and where children have slits cut into the crotches of their pants so they can piss and shit in the street. (And no, I am not kidding about that last one. Look it up.)

    I spent six weeks backpacking China in 2006 and it was an absolute nightmare. I imagine it's worse now that the pollution is truly out of control.

    Hong Kong is good. Taiwan is good. Mainland China is a nightmare. (Shanghai is not the worst place on earth either. But that's only because the rest of China *is* the worst place on earth.)

  • The very first thing I ask myself when I apply to a new IT position is "can I breathe the air and drink the water in that city?"
    In China, that answer is no. Also you'll get arrested for doing basically anything. That's a bit of a downside as well.

  • in US too (Score:3)

    by Frederic54 ( 3788 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @02:01PM (#53476965) Journal
    I worked for a US company, as a software developper, that decided to block all the "shareware" "freeware" open source" and al websites, so we had no access to github, stack overflow, forums or anything interesting for developpers. We had to fight HR (it seems HR head had the decision to unblock site, try to explain what open source is...) to access them. It was a true nightmare, they were control freak of the web. The number of times you did a search, click on the answer you were looking for and bam! blocked! We had bypass using different DNS or 3G on our phone, etc.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Shoten ( 260439 )

      I worked for a US company, as a software developper, that decided to block all the "shareware" "freeware" open source" and al websites, so we had no access to github, stack overflow, forums or anything interesting for developpers. We had to fight HR (it seems HR head had the decision to unblock site, try to explain what open source is...) to access them. It was a true nightmare, they were control freak of the web. The number of times you did a search, click on the answer you were looking for and bam! blocked!
      We had bypass using different DNS or 3G on our phone, etc.

      I think you fail to grasp the totality of it in China...and the implication of it being done by a government rather than simply an employer.

      For one thing, there's no amount of web surfing you could have possibly done at your job that would have gotten you in prison...short, that is, of going after child porn. But in China, people have been arrested for comments posted online, participation in certain groups, etc. And even without arrest, you have to worry about being under investigation.

      Then, consider the

  • Wrong asumptions (Score:3, Interesting)

    by franzrogar ( 3986783 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @02:06PM (#53477005)

    Quote: "The biggest problem is government control of the internet."

    WRONG! (properly capitalized)

    The biggest problem is that China is a country with a dictatorship and that shit in Human Rights.

    (Real) example: I'm gay. If I go there to work I'm not allowed to live (if I go to the street and kiss my couple, or even f**k at home, both get killed and the Government send the bullets bill to our families).

  • Your Mileage May Vary (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Shoten ( 260439 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @02:14PM (#53477057)

    There are, as described above, many reasons...but I think the "main" reason for any particular person will depend upon the person.

    I was once contacted by Huawei about becoming an executive at their organization, in Beijing. Now..this is curious to me since I neither speak Mandarin nor Cantonese. I find it hard to imagine that I would make a very effective VP in a technical role, without even a basic conversational grasp of their language. (And don't even think about reading...)

    However, interestingly enough, I also have a background in doing cyber security for the military in which role I got access to quite a lot of things. So...yeah. NO WAY was I going to entertain the job offer, for even a millisecond.

    But you know what? Even without that creepiness, I wouldn't have considered it because of the air pollution. I can't imagine exercising outdoors in a place where the air is so filthy you can taste it. Hell no.

    For some people, a reason not to go would be the culture shock...but for me, that's actually a plus. Or maybe the food? Nope...I love exploring new cuisines, and have always been fantastically happy getting authentic local food in any country I've visited. The crowding? Uh uh...I'm a hardcore urbanite. But for some others, these would be downsides instead of upsides...it all depends on the person.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Thankfully I remembered to download the entire Internet to a blank CD before I left for Chin++++NO CARRIER

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by slew ( 2918 )

      Thankfully I remembered to download the entire Internet to a blank CD before I left for Chin++++NO CARRIER

      Don't laugh, but didn't I hear that Google's doing something like that for Cuba [slashdot.org]? ;^)

  • As the subject suggests both the US and China benefit from Chinese students in Ph. D. programs in US universities. US Ph. D. programs in the hard sciences (chemistry, physics, etc.) and the various engineering disciplines are stocked with Chinese nationals on student visas. These graduates go back to China and either work for government agencies or as university faculty. Those who graduate from elite US universities end up at elite China universities. Their non-resident tuition in US public schools will lik
  • kind of stupid question is that? Totalitarian, violently oppressive, culturally backwards, and an environmental shithole. What person with "tech talent" would be attracted to that?

  • Want Tech talent? Pay in US dollars at 4X the rate of the highest paid tech job in the USA. Plus give us special status equal to your government officials that make us exempt from your laws like they are.

    Then you will get a lot of talent coming there, that would be enough for us to put up with the rampant bullshit we see coming from your companies in design failures and trying to work people to death.

    $2.2million per year paid in US dollars with a 20% increase yearly and a $20million balloon payout after

  • I've got rooms of PhD developers in Beijing, all of whom make almost Silicon Valley salaries, are smart enough to understand tunneling and VPN's like most everyone except maybe hairstylists and bicycle mechanics.

  • PMI China isn't a chapter of the Project Management Institute... it is a use of the PMI license and part of the communist party... and is patrolled during meetings by the PLA. That is a significant discourager of talent.

  • Living there is a mixed bag (Score:4, Informative)

    by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @03:45PM (#53477957) Homepage
    I lived in China for 2 years and there is a lot to both like and hate.

    The good:
    - The people are generally nice, easy to get on with.
    - It is generally safe, I was never worried about where I went or when, within reason.
    - The food is good, once you learn the gotchas.
    - The electronics markets are the best in the world.

    The bad:
    - The Internet is truly horrible. I spent half my spare time curating VPNs to try and stay online. It is genuinely holding back China's tech sector. I was so glad when I returned home where the Internet just worked.
    - Bureaucracy is a pain, everything is way more complicated than it needs to be. It took me a full day to change the ownership of my car when I sold it and I mean a full day, not just a few hours. Back home this take less than 5 minutes.
    - Driving on China's roads is very stressful because of the lack of rule enforcement. I will never complain about drivers back home again.
    - Pollution can make you feel unwell, much like having a cold. This was only a problem in the big cities, in small cities it is low enough to not affect you directly.

    It has been a couple of years now since I lived there and from what I hear the Internet and pollution have both got worst since then.

  • Programmers who can't take advantage of the sites and tools that make development a global effort are destined to write software customized solely for the Chinese market.

    Hmmmmmmmmm...

  • China has it own university students who then go on to create things and teach the next generation.
    If they want they can learn in the West and bring back ideas and concepts as they are been created in Western universities and think tanks, research labs.
    The Communist Party and mil does not need some foreigner wondering around for years asking questions, looking at things, learning about local issues.
    Not many people in the West have anything that China needs. If China sees a product or service it wants it

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