Inequality, exclusion and the threat that they pose to societies around the world are in sharp focus at the World Economic Forum as is highlighted in this interview with Biznews’ Alec Hogg and Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New Zealand and current Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme. Clark makes an impassioned case against the ‘blight of inequality on societies’ stating that, “Seventy-five percent of people in developing countries today, live in countries, which are less equal than they were 25 years ago.” An inspiring perspective from the heart of Davos, indeed. – LF
ALEC HOGG: I’m with Helen Clark, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand who’s now with the United Nations. You’ve just been on a panel discussion here, on inequality. It’s something close to your heart that you’re working very strongly on.
HELEN CLARK: We see inequality as a blight on societies. It is stopping countries from developing to their full potential because so many people are being left behind. They may be poor, marginalised, or excluded for income reason, class reasons, caste reasons, gender reasons, and whole range of reasons but it does hold societies back.
ALEC HOGG: What is interesting here in Davos is the divergence. It’s almost as though the common problems, such as inequality, are taking a back seat to real issues of war and the elites losing money, etcetera. Are you feeling that? Do you get a sense of that here?
HELEN CLARK: I think we need to look at what are some of the deeper drivers are of this volatile, uncertain, new global context, which Davos has as its theme this year. Underlying it is feelings of exclusion from political systems, from economic systems, and from social justice and rights. If you start to tackle inequality, that also becomes a way into tackling some of the other things blighting our world at the moment.
ALEC HOGG: New Zealand has done amazingly well under your stewardship and subsequent to that, economically, almost proving the point that you can be more equal in a society and thrive.
HELEN CLARK: I think the Scandinavian societies, which have long prioritised equality – equal opportunity and universal services – show us that it’s possible to be prosperous, highly developed, and have high levels of equality. Traditionally, New Zealand has been an egalitarian society. It went through its period of neo-liberal adjustment, which took the edge off that and had quite fast-growing inequality, but still, measured by many societies today, the New Zealand society is one where there is more opportunity, better basic services, and a better chance to get ahead than in a lot of places.
ALEC HOGG: Being at the U.N. now, you clearly deal with the whole world. There are so many different levels of development and consciousness of issues like these. How do you deal with them? How do you sleep at night, being able to not think about these big challenges?
HELEN CLARK: Well, the challenges are huge and I think, in response to the challenges, there has been a great focus on poverty and poverty eradication. However, just reducing poverty doesn’t reduce inequality and we have been able to show that. Seventy-five percent of people in developing countries today, live in countries, which are less equal than they were 25 years ago. There have to be very deliberate strategies, which tackle inequality and poverty. It’s not going to happen by accident that you get inequality down. It has to have specific policies. We all know what they are. It needs the political will and commitment to drive them through.
ALEC HOGG: Getting back to that issue of consciousness: it appears as though there’s a process, when the bulk of society in a particular country will be happy to focus on these issues. Are we making progress from a global sense in this regard, given what you’ve just said, that 75 percent of people are living in less equal positions today than they did quarter of a century ago?
HELEN CLARK: I think there are large and powerful countries, which are very focused on this. China has had its rapid growth and huge movement out of extreme poverty but along with that has come growing inequality – something that greatly concerns their leadership. They have begun to introduce policies, which would try to redress that. Where leaders put a premium on trying to keep a harmonious society – they know that letting inequality get away, is toxic for that.
ALEC HOGG: Looking forward to the new millennial goals or the new goals for the world, is this likely to become a higher priority?
HELEN CLARK: Definitely, because poverty eradication in itself isn’t going to reduce inequality. Inequality has been a specific focus, very much a feeling that we can’t leave people behind. No one should be left behind. That should then challenge countries to look at their policy mix around redistribution of income and power. Countries will report against their progress on these new goals so to have a story to tell, you would not like to tell one of inequality going through the roof, but rather going through the floorboards.
ALEC HOGG: Helen, just to close off with, yesterday our little group met with the President of Ukraine. The story he was telling us was not a happy one. He says that (in his opinion, anyway) all of the global institutions like the United Nations are failing in addressing very real issues on the ground, in that context. From the perspective of a more equal society/a more equal world/ a safer world, is the U.N. able to still make a significant contribution there?
HELEN CLARK: Well, it has to make a significant contribution and it has to be across the three strands of its mandate. I’m responsible for the Development Strand where we get out, do practical things, and work with governments to make a difference and can show impact on the ground. There’s the Human Rights Strand, which struggles if the Rights space is heavily contested. Then you have the Political and Security space where things are quite grim and I can understand why the Ukrainian President would be offering reflections on that. There’s a war going on, in the east of his country and it’s getting greater emphasis on peace-building, mediation, dispute resolution, and trying to get people to talk differences through and not fight them out, I think is bread and butter work for the U.N.
ALEC HOGG: My thanks to Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New Zealand and now with the United Nations.
HELEN CLARK: Thanks.
