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Cultures change over time, and so do the expectations and the behavior of the people in those cultures. Approximately 100 years ago, most American men worked for themselves or in small businesses, more people lived in rural areas than urban areas (and there were no suburbs), the median age of first marriage for men was 25, and mandatory public education through grade 6 was new. That was controversial; many people asked what would happen when boys spent their days sitting still in a setting dominated by female teachers instead of doing physical work in the company of men (sound familiar?). The Boy Scouts Of America were created in order to help meet that challenge.
About 50 years ago, most men completed high school but only a small percentage attended college. Modernization and industrialization were well established and a substantial percentage of men were “organization men” who worked for large companies. The median age of first marriage had fallen to just under 23—about the lowest it would be during the 20th Century—and young families aspired to move up the social ladder and live in the suburbs.
Today, an overwhelming majority of guys complete high school and about half start college promptly. The industrial age has passed in favor of the information age (or services age, if you prefer), and the recent recession devastated many “traditionally male” industries. The median age of first marriage has climbed to nearly 28, and there are approximately 2.7 million single-father households, a 900% increase since 1960.
It’s very clear that men have changed repeatedly, adapting to the culture around them.
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When I hear people say that men haven’t changed or can’t change, it makes me think their knowledge of gender–especially masculinity–is limited to their personal experience. It’s very clear that men have changed repeatedly, adapting to the culture around them.
I’m not surprised when people tell me men can’t or won’t change. There are few opportunities to learn about masculinity in the structured setting of a classroom. I don’t think there are any textbooks or resources for middle or high school aged boys, but I could be wrong. A fair number of colleges and universities offer a course on masculinity, but very few offer more than one and I don’t think there’s any place where you can major in it. The University of South Australia is expected to admit the first students into a graduate program focused on men in 2014; they’ll be followed by Stony Brook University in 2015.
Ironically, most of my friends and colleagues that teach men’s courses say their enrollment is often 75% female. Or higher. Those young women routinely tell their professors that their male friends ask what they’re talking about in the course and occasionally read the material.
For contrast, consider that nearly every college or university in the US offers coursework in Women’s Studies (WS), typically contributing to a minor if not a major course of study. Many institutions offer graduate degrees as well, both at the Master’s and Doctoral levels.
If our goal is to understand gender in its entirely, feminine, masculine, gender-queer, and others, then we need to do a better job of studying both men and masculinity. I’m making a somewhat–but not entirely artificial–distinction between the group typically defined by the biological presence of one X and one Y chromosome (men) and the cultural standards this group is expected to live up to that can be invoked by expressions like “man up” (masculinity). These definitions aren’t perfect, and that’s one of the reasons we need a systematic approach to understanding them.
Studying and teaching about men would provide a means for helping challenge stereotypes about men while also educating people about effective ways to be mentors to boys and men.
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This is about more than the pursuit of knowledge. WS programs routinely include a component of activism, for both faculty and students. It’s not unusual to hear WS faculty talking about empowering students so the students see themselves as more competent and capable of going out and changing the world.
Studying and teaching about men would provide a means for helping challenge stereotypes about men while also educating people about effective ways to be mentors to boys and men. Given the nearly perpetual concern about a “boy crisis” or “masculinity crisis,” greater understanding of exactly what the problem is and what’s causing it would provide more effective solutions. Alternately, if these crises are nothing more than overblown responses to cultural change, they would more readily be understood as smoke-without-fire.
Coursework would also help guys understand gender more broadly, including the ways it intersects with factors like ethnicity and social class. As feminist thinkers have repeatedly pointed out, the system known as Patriarchy requires that both men and women follow its rules in order to maximize their benefits. Women (and girls) have learned a variety of techniques and created networks to challenge this system; this is most obvious in the increasingly female face of medicine and law, micro-business and micro-credit programs to support women’s small businesses (domestically and abroad), and things like grrrrl power.
Yet men are also bound by this same system, as both masculist Warren Farrell and feminist RaeWyn (aka Robert) Connell have pointed out. To use Connell’s framework (and my own set of adolescent examples), men are stratified across four broad levels: those who adhere to the “hegemonic” form that is idealized within that society (“jocks”), those who don’t quite measure up but are complicit in supporting this form (“average Joes”), those who are subordinated (“nerds”), and those who are marginalized (“druggies”). Understanding why these particular groups are given the social clout they have, or don’t have, helps develop ways to change the system.
Paralleling the Women’s Centers that exist on many campuses, Men’s Centers could also be beneficial. Providing resources that would facilitate conversations about gender–but focused on men and masculinity–makes sense. Similarly, providing or facilitating services for male survivors of sexual assault without stigmatizing them would certainly help that segment of the student population.
To me, the greater need is the less visible role that Center directors often provide: an individual on campus who can consult with other professionals to ensure that their programs meaningfully consider the unique needs of men when designing services.
The goal here is not to create a series of programs that oppose Women’s Studies programs or counter the work of Women’s Centers. Like courses in sexuality and GLBTQ centers, the goal is to enhance the campus environment and educational offerings by making sure that all groups are represented. In some areas, cooperation would likely be easy and straightforward; in other areas, it would be more difficult.
If we want to create a society where gender equality is the norm, then we need to gain a better understanding of men and masculinity. Although most American men under 50 believe that a woman should not be denied access to educational or occupational opportunities because of her gender, many of them resist large-scale cultural changes because they don’t have a framework for how to think about masculinity and lack knowledge of other gender systems. It’s time to fix that.
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Sorry, but it comes accross as feminist-bashing. I mean “feminists silencing men”? Really? I do think it is still the vastly the case that women are silenced – not men. I have only experienced “feminist silencing men” which were accusing, insulting etc., and even there I have experienced feminists often giving good reasons for their reactions. This comes too much accross as the “men are the real victims” song – and that’s a pitty. If something should be changed in a positive way, mens and womens liberation should go hand in hand and certainly not be opponents. I’m disappointed by… Read more »
I liked your article over all. I agree with you that gender courses need to be more broad. I also think that we should deconstruct the gender binary altogether as it is limiting for all those involved.
I did have a question however, why did you decided to put the name Robert next to Raewyn Connell’s name? She identities as a transwoman and thus Raewyn is her name. She does not go by Robert. I found that to be slightly offensive.
I think the distinction between theory, advocacy, and experience is somewhat useful here to tease apart some of the key issues. Like: What’s needed in order to advance scholarship in men’s studies? Is it a dedicated faculty or is there research funding for cross-discipline work? What policy initiatives would best address the systemic problems we see that adversely affect boys and men? How can we mobilize faculty, staff, and students to address these issues? What’s the best way to engage boys and men in conversations about their personal experience and their own understanding of masculinity? How does campus-wide programming eliminate… Read more »
I might also add that change will probably come from economic stimuli. Most guys could give a damn about academics and politics, but do realize they need to make a decent living and have status in the economic community. What are the skills that men need to compete in the technological/service economy and what are contemporary role models? Sadly, most of our role models (John Wayne, etc.) are woefully outdated and teach outmoded skills that can be a detriment in today’s business world.
I’m surprised people actually still think men are exactly the same today as they were 50 years ago. My Mom is always impressed when she sees a young father at the playground with his kids or pushing a stroller. In her day, Dads just didn’t really do that stuff. Not because they weren’t good Dads but because their role was more focused on being a provider for the family, not always someone who was also a caretaker for the family. But that’s obviously (and welcomingly) changed/changing. I can’t see anything but good from having Male Study majors or classes. I’d… Read more »
I think you are spot on, Erin. What I find disturbing is the sense that nothing can be accomplished except from a position of victim hood rather than empowerment. Both males and females have had their natural tendencies, biological instincts, twisted to sociological purposes. Historically brute strength was advantageous, but with the advent of technology the masculine biological advantage has become less imperative. The question both males and females need to ponder is how do we incorporate our biology into our new technological sociology. We have done this in the past with the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution and we will… Read more »
“My guess is a greater fluidity of impulses and actions will become acceptable for both males and females while still honoring the inherent differences. I am not a big fan of the “metrosexual” ideal of blended genders and envision finding a common ground for both empowered females and males to enhance one another yet still retain their unique qualities.” I totally agree with this John. I’d like to see greater acceptance of the fluidity of our genders while still maintaing our uniquness. I might be good at directions but I still want to be a woman at the end of… Read more »
I would also disagree about using women’s studies as models for men’s growth centers. I recently completed a master’s psychology program and was horrified at the feminist psychology cult that has high ranking within the psychology community, possibly because most graduate psychology majors are women. My problem was the feminist basis of identifying with being a minority or victim rather than a more grounded connection to feminine power and strength. Men have traditionally been in power positions and, as you pointed out, now are rapidly becoming obsolete and often vilified as crass degenerates. Do men have to become victims before… Read more »
Hi Joh, Hi wellokaythen, I’m ambivalent about using Women’s studies programs or women’s centers as models. The article never really comes out and says “let’s create a major or minor to study men,” although it does point out they don’t really exist. My experience of WS programs is that they’re really good at helping students who are very interested in the topic, but they have little impact beyond that. And that’s usually a relatively small number of students. Quality of those departments – and the faculty in them – has varied across the campuses I’ve been on. Some very capable… Read more »
Thanks for your thoughtful response.
I don’t mean to suggest that Men’s Studies or Men’s Centers would not be useful at all. In terms of “Men’s Centers,” it would certainly be great if there were shelters for men trying to escape domestic violence, or men’s-focused crisis centers, referral agencies, etc. In some ways, on my campus the veterans affairs liaison sort of serves the purpose as a stopgap measure, but it’s not really set up to do that.
….hit reply too fast…
I hope that men-as-a-group don’t wait until we have achieved broad “victim” or marginalized status before we act. One of the things I very much appreciate about this website is that it’s one of the few places to have this conversation without having to proclaim allegiance to a particular POV. GMP has & is helping me shape my perspective and gain a better sense of several different “middle grounds.” I’ve started writing that article once or twice, but it’s not even close to ready. It’ll happen. And perhaps one of you will write your own version?
I hope that men-as-a-group don’t wait until we have achieved broad “victim” or marginalized status before we act. Unfortunately I get the feeling that is just where the tide is turning. How many times have you heard someone say something to the effect of, “When men…..(marginalization that women face)….then we can put some focus on them.”? Its happening even right here at GMP. And I think that’s the issue. As much as even well intentioned folks don’t want to admit there is a mentality of, “Men need to be this mistreated in order to be worthy of discussion.” Men have… Read more »
Being someone that has infact felt exactly that…”When men…(marginalization that women face)…then we can put some focus on them”, I’m not always sure how to contend with those thoughts while fairly given credence to men’s issues. It’s really difficult to lend attention, time, thought, planning and energy to another group when you are still faced with your own feelings of marginalization. Although, I find this to be a pretty strong reaccuring problem in both genders.
I think it’s hard, especially in the advocacy context, to generate interest and attention unless there is some problem-to-be-solved. It makes my stomach hurt to think that anyone would have to be a victim of violence or failed schools before anybody would talk about boy’s/men’s concerns in any cohesive way. But I have to agree with Danny that this is already the case. It’s sad.
It’s sad that people, men or women, have to experience suffering. But without the suffering, what exactly would be talking about anyway? Without the suffering that tests us, we would probably be much more shallow human beings. It’s a funny dichotomy. No one wants to suffer and most healthy people don’t want to see others suffer. However, suffering can sometimes breed some pretty huge positives and rewards. Such as compassion, growth, new out looks, community and appreciation for life… and alot more. Humans have a tendency to take life for granted when they’ve never experiences hardship.
It’s really difficult to lend attention, time, thought, planning and energy to another group when you are still faced with your own feelings of marginalization. What bugs me sometimes is that (in my experience mind you) on one hand women and feminists are putting so much time, effort, and energy into focusing on women that they don’t have time to focus on men…..yet they still manage to find the time, focus, and energy to spit off remarks like that and also tell us what our experiences are and try to define any implications about them. If you’re not focusing on… Read more »
I don’t really get what your driving at Danny. You sound mad at me for my comments but I really, really don’t understand. Exactly what excuse am I giving? I was being honest about my own feelings. But what I do know is that both men and women experience marginalization and are actually looking for validation from both members of their own gender and also members of the opposite gender. However, it seems that neither gender actually really truly gives the other the validation they need to feel like their issues are heard from an opposite sex perspective. What in… Read more »
I don’t really get what your driving at Danny. You sound mad at me for my comments but I really, really don’t understand. Exactly what excuse am I giving? I was being honest about my own feelings. No its not you I’m talking about in that comment Erin. This is my experience on the topic you bring up about focusing energy on some groups rather than others. No I’m not mad about you because you don’t indulge in this. That was a generic “you” not specific to you Erin. Im usually better about clarifying that, my apologies for not doing… Read more »
Danny:” That was a generic “you” not specific to you Erin. Im usually better about clarifying that, my apologies for not doing so this time.” You don’t have to apologize. I do that generic “you” thing too and sometimes forget how it can translate to someone else. Thanks for explaining. Danny: “Its just the other side of the coin of the very often used term mansplaining. And again I’m not saying that you do this Erin but quite frankly yes, it is about condescension. Its talking down to someone using your gender as the reason why you are the more… Read more »
I can understand it being difficult to find time and energy for the troubles of someone else when you’re faced with your own struggles, but at the same time I find myself wondering if everyone focusing on their groups issues is part of the problem. Men are often challenged to step up and help out with women’s issues, and often derided if we’d rather focus our time and energy on the problems that affect us instead. In some ways, we should help, as we bring can bring different “tools” to the problem (e.g. we can influence our peers from within).… Read more »
A general point of agreement and a point of slight disagreement here. I agree that masculinity has been changing. Men and masculinity have changed in the past few generations because, frankly, men and masculinity have always already been in a state of flux. There has never been a steady-state gender system in human history. Maybe in the past gender norms went for centuries in a relatively stable system, but gender has never been an unchanging dynamic. I suspect that Western men went through an even bigger masculinity revolution two centuries ago during industrialization then they have in the past few… Read more »
(response below, with Joh)
Hmm interesting perspective. I believe though that there are plenty of middle-class families that rent and are perfectly fine with that. The fact that one needs two full time wage earners to own a house seems as relevant as saying that one needs money to buy a car. Also, it’s slightly strange to talk about the median house price and the median income price during two separate eras without talking about purchasing power. Devaluation and inflation would of course be reasons as to why what a person earns doesn’t match what they’re able to buy in the market over time.… Read more »
Greg, I agree that purchasing power is also an important element, and I think we might be in agreement that economics also play a rather substantial role in changing men’s roles. I think we’re pretty close on the impact of psychology, although that may only be momentary. I read your first comment as saying psyc had a huge role in _changing_ gender roles and I responded by saying that psyc makes only minor changes (and, implicitly mostly supports the status quo). In this comment, you’re arguing that psyc supports/helps create the status quo. I’m with you on that last statement.… Read more »
Sounds like we agree on quite a bit. My main point of conjecture was that I was concerned that the idea of masculinity changing was being framed in a way to seem like a spontaneous or even “natural progression” of society-when I personally see it as more of a hand spun evolution from one type of culture to another that unfortunately seems a bit unsustainable and dangerous, psychologically, to the individual (male OR female).I also think that mainstream psychology and the feminist movement seem to be at the forefront of the “evolution”. I guess it just depends on who frames… Read more »
At the end of the day it’s mostly middle class men and “below” that are “changing”. Let’s be frank. Our (western) culture has been transitioning towards a sort of Post-Modern, Marxian “liberalism” in full throttle ever since the late 1950s and 60s. Not saying that it’s necessarily a bad thing that certain male cultural ideas have changed like hyper-violence, etc (although it’s only changed in the abstract, violent crime actually sky-rocketed all across the western world in the 1960s and continues to do so), but I fervently believe that we’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.… Read more »
Greg,
You raise several good points about how these changes are related to other large-scale cultural changes, some of which are broader than the US. I don’t quite follow you when you talk about “throwing out the baby with the bathwater” and “replacing masculinity with feminiity”; can you clarify?
If you haven’t read it, you might enjoy Jean Twenge’s “Generation ME”; she provides a broad (if not always detailed) takedown of the self-esteem movement that started to infiltrate everything in the 1980s.
By “throwing out the baby with the bathwater”, I mean that the 40s/50s era clearly wasn’t a utopia that some people try to make it seem but it was definitely a much safer time (in general) with much less crime. As a society we could have tried to keep the more positive aspects of the dominant ideology and attempt to do away with the negative aspects (racism, sexism, etc). Yet, the feminist movement (historically) along with other movements (i unfortunately have to lob psychology in with this as well) seemed intent on “taking down the system” which seems juvenile and… Read more »
Thanks for clarifying Greg. I don’t think all those post-1950s changes are the result of Feminism or psychology. There’s also a slew of political & economic factors involved. The US is now a society that requires most households to have 2 full time wage earners if they wish to own a house or have something that qualifies as a middle class lifestyle (unless one of them is in the top 10% of earners). That’s about a dramatic change in housing; in the 1950s, the median house price was around the median family income (and that was usually a single income);… Read more »
Greg’s point about the “take down the system” approach hints at something that’s been bouncing around in my head too…. In a sense, women’s studies focused on applying feminist critique, using gender as a lens to deconstruct what’s happening in society. And that was/is successful in casting new light on old assumptions and in dismantling old structures. What I hear often on GMP (and it is echoed in this discussion) is the growing desire for some re-construction. Is the movement to create men’s studies and men’s centers more geared to rebuilding what feminism has dissected or is it an effort… Read more »
What I hear often on GMP (and it is echoed in this discussion) is the growing desire for some re-construction. I can’t speak for all the other guys here but there is desire for re-construction but some before that. You see I am of the mind that while feminist critique used its lens to deconstruct what’s happening in society to great effect I think plain and simple they got some things wrong. Some really big things. And I think those things need to be corrected or the re-construction is going have the effect of building a house on a faulty… Read more »
Danny,
I’m probably going to regret opening this thread to the Pandora’s box of responses that are likely, but my entirely predictable follow-up question is:
In your considered opinion, which deconstructions did feminism get wrong?
I’ll start.
Saying ALL men are (insert adjective here).
Confusing masculinity with maleness.
Crafting sex-specific policy long after being gender-neutral would have worked well enough.
Over-emphasizing feminine->to->masculine pathways of change.
Sorry, but “gender neutral” is a myth. Both genders do retain millions of years of biology and “neutralizing” or neutering either sex diminishes the tension that provides the “spark” of creation and creativity. I am suggesting we need to honor our biology as well as our spirituality and find some fluid balance rather than some bland neutrality that honors neither. I honor and even revere the feminine spirit, but I can assure you I wouldn’t make a good female nor would I aspire to do so. Men have huge talents, they just need to be channeled differently than in the… Read more »
John Hardman – I meant gender-neutral policy – i.e. laws are written so as to apply to everyone, regardless of sex. Like the Family Medical Leave Act.
I agree with you that the yin and yang of our biological and spiritual differences ought to be honored and celebrated. One of the things I’m always keen to explore is that thin line between difference and determinism.
Those things came along after one of the mistakes I’ve noticed Kari. Its simple. As I have been told by feminists (and looking up feminism) supposedly this patriarchy we live under is a system that elevates the masculine above the feminine. Therefore by extension lifts men over women. From there you get not only the things you list but also blanket statements like, “Men are privileged (how often does it make sense to classify an entire group of people based on the status of a very minute subset of them?).”, “Sexism against men doesn’t exist because women don’t have institutional… Read more »
Danny – I think there’s a distinction between saying “men have all the power” versus “all men have power” but unfortunately these two phrases are often used interchangeably. And I, personally, don’t really agree with either one of them. For all it’s flaws, I think postmodernism helped expand our understanding of power and how power is stratified across all sorts of axis, not just sex. And that power-over isn’t just about large-scale institutions it is also about intimate and personal interactions. If we can go back to the four levels Andrew mentions in the article – hegemonic, complicit, subordinated, marginalized.… Read more »
Kari, My opinion is that it is the latter. Feminist critique of inequality resulting from histories of patriarchy are used to discuss how being a member of the dominant culture produces negative impacts on men. Jackson Katz ,founder of the Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP) program, focus on how constructions of masculinity that have been part and parcel to men’s sports support violence against women and produce any number of psychological consequences for men. They incorporate, from my understanding, feminist theory and critique to help men learn news ways of “being a man” without that are not about embracing masculinity… Read more »
Chris – so you’re saying this isn’t about a new method of critique, it’s about applying it in a new way – do you think that’s the right approach? is it working?
This is a great suggestion. I think that Men’s Centers are needed and that they could work alongside Women’s Center and LGBTQ centers. I’ve heard great things about Men and Masculinity studies classes and I think it is definitely time to push an initiative to talk about these issues. Do you see this as a way to help men open up their minds about what it could mean to be a man as well as educating around men’s issues? Also, what do you see as men’s issues today? When you think of women’s issues one thinks of equal pay, the… Read more »
There are a few colleges/universities in the US that have established Men’s Centers; U Oregon is the one that comes most readily to mind, headed by Jon Davies.
Yes, definitely a way to help men think about “what it means to be a man” and to help identify & establish “men’s issues.” (generally speaking, I dislike labeling issues as M, F, or LGBTQ because they effect us all, but I’m with you in concept.)
Not only do we not have a framework to think about masculinity, a lot of the time it’s a repressed subject. Too often in our culture, masculinity is something that’s simply not “talked about. It’s something you do, it’s something you are–but you don’t talk about it, because that would be “unmanly”. Providing a framework, and an opportunity, to bring masculinity into the cultural conversation is crucial to society’s ever-expanding consciousness, and that’s what this article, and The Good Men project, is doing. Great article!
I agree about masculinity not being discussed James, and thank for the praise regarding the article and GMP.
I’m very curious about the statement that 75% or more of students in men’s studies classes are female. What’s keeping the men from signing up? If they are reading the material and asking about it behind the scenes it seems like there is interest but some roadblock that prevents them from publicly participating. Is this the cultural construct of “we don’t talk about it” (as James mentioned)? I worry that if male voices aren’t well represented in the room, then the risk of becoming “feminism for men” seems awfully high to me. And did you look at the list of… Read more »
What’s keeping the men from signing up? Well its a few things. As you say there is a “we don’t talk about it” effect going on. Very similar to the way “we don’t talk about it” affects other groups of people we choose to stay silent because we’ve been taught that talking about it is wrong. However there is one big difference. Unlike most other walks of life, men are actually raised to not just believe that we don’t talk about those things for the sake of helping those in power keep it, we’re taught not to talk it because… Read more »
Danny – I get that these things (feminists silencing men) are happening all over in the wider culture and on campuses, but I’m wondering what’s happening inside these classrooms? One thing that shifted when women’s studies was recognized as a formal course of study is that it empowered women in the classroom – both inside and outside the major – to talk about sexism. It provided safe space within academia to have the conversation. If men haven’t been empowered to talk about masculinity (yet), and if the vary classes that might provide safe space to do so are dominated by… Read more »
…how can we make this class more attractive to male students?
Its going to take men being able to see that staying silent isn’t a defining pillar of masculinity and that speaking up doesn’t count against their manhood.
That’s sort of a chicken-egg quandary since these classes might be the places men would learn “to see that staying silent isn’t a defining pillar of masculinity and that speaking up doesn’t count against their manhood”. I wonder if having more public campus-wide events and round-table type discussions where most men could attend without actively participating would help. Some ole-fashioned consciousness-raising activities to break the ice. Alternatively – anybody know the ramifications of capping enrollment for women at half the full class size? Not that this guarantees more men will sign up, but it would certainly make the lack of… Read more »
Round table discussions would help and I think open forums would help as well. Breaking ice is important and I think a key to that is to let them know that its okay to speak up. Alternatively – anybody know the ramifications of capping enrollment for women at half the full class size? Not that this guarantees more men will sign up, but it would certainly make the lack of men more visible and weighty in the classroom. On one hand I like that idea because it would give guys some much needed room. However I worry that by capping… Read more »
I don’t always exactly think that it is the speaking up as a man part that gets someone called a misogynist. I think that all too often, sometimes, some men can get caught up in attacking and criticizing Feminism. Feminism isn’t a zero sum game. It’s not all good and it’s not all bad. I certainly think it was an important development in our culture and a neccesary one. But I don’t think it’s development was to make men the bad guys. Like anything, (The Male Rights Movement included) you will see the best and worst in people. And all… Read more »
I don’t always exactly think that it is the speaking up as a man part that gets someone called a misogynist. And believe I’m glad you don’t. I think that all too often, sometimes, some men can get caught up in attacking and criticizing Feminism. Yes that does happen sometimes. Feminism isn’t a zero sum game. It’s not all good and it’s not all bad. Agreed. I really can’t get into either of those vibes. Its a mix of the two and I think those who believe that its all good or bad are being dishonest. But I don’t think… Read more »
Yeah, I have to say I agree with you, Danny. In the last couple of days, I have read some seriously vindictive anger laid down on some guys who offer respectful and salient points on behalf of men. I know it happens, but I don’t see too much in the way of anti-feminism on these threads/blogs. I read a more “what about us?”/”why don’t you take your woman-hating elsewhere?” kind of discussion. I could be ignorant about the larger discussion, but my experience leads me to believe that among women there’s a lot more vindictive anger than there is spirit… Read more »
If these programs are unwilling to oppose or challenge women’s studies, I think they’ll just be seen as Feminism for Men; the stereotypes that will be challenged will be that Men can’t become good Male Feminists, for example. But will they get to challenge the reality of the simplistic & oh so hateful “hegemonic jock & other castes” concept?
Hi Uland,
I think the programs can’t _inherently_ be created to oppose Women’s Studies; what organization in it’s right mind would create a program defined by being in opposition to another program?
I do think there are times when programs about men would work collaboratively with women’s programs and other times where they’d be in opposition (see next to last paragraph), and that should probably be the goal.
While I agree with Andrew that such courses cannot be based on opposing women’s studies I think you have a very good point. If there is to be any hope of building an effective and comprehensive way to help out men and boys they can’t start with a hand tied behind their back in the form of being told that challenging some of concepts and ideas that have come from women studies is off limits. But one must to it carefully. As we have seen when it comes to building a presence for men on college campuses it is extremely… Read more »