118 episodes
Nobody Should Believe Me NSBM Plus
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- True Crime
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4.2 • 1.5K Ratings
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Novelist Andrea Dunlop is looking for answers. When her older sister was first investigated for Munchausen by Proxy abuse more than a decade ago, it tore her family apart. This catastrophic series of events sent Dunlop on a journey to understand this most taboo form of abuse. In this groundbreaking podcast, she talks to some of the top experts in the world to explore the criminology and psychopathology behind Munchausen by Proxy and to reveal the wide swath of destruction these perpetrators leave in their wake. Along the way, she becomes captivated by the case of Hope Ybarra. Dunlop speaks to those most familiar with the case, from the reporter who broke the story, to the detective who investigated it, to the family who lived through it. In the dramatic finale, she’ll speak to Hope Ybarra herself. (LM032423)
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Special Report: Watching Take Care of Maya (re-release)
Warning: This content includes references to suicide and child abuse. If you or someone you know is having thoughts of suicide, help is available. Call or text 988 to speak with a trained crisis counselor 24/7. You can also visit 988lifeline.org for additional resources and support.
As the Jack Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial gets underway today in Sarasota, FL, we revisit our conversation with top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and survivor Jordyn Hope about “Take Care of Maya” the Netflix documentary about the Maya Kowalski case. Today we introduce our third season of Nobody Should Believe Me, where we will delve into the complex notion of “false accusations” of medical child abuse, getting into everything we’ve uncovered about the Maya Kowalski case and the broader conversations happening around the nation. Is there really an epidemic of over-diagnosis of medical child abuse, or are offenders slipping through the cracks?
Andrea is a finalist for the Signal Awards! Best Host - Documentary Category: PLEASE VOTE HERE: https://vote.signalaward.com/PublicVoting#/2023/shows/craft/best-host-documentary
For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com
This show is produced by Larj Media
Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop
Buy Andrea’s books here.
To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
Introducing The Jordan Harbinger Show
Today, we'd like to recommend the Jordan Harbinger Show. It's one of our all time favorite interview podcasts. Hope you check out all things Jordan soon.
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Shelter
As the Maya Kowalski case heads to trial, we dig into the massive trove of documents about this case and begin to unpack what we know about what really happened during Maya Kowalski’s fateful stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens in October 2016.
The Netflix documentary about the case—and the prevailing media narrative---would have you believe that Maya was ripped from her parents by a corrupt system, and that this could happen to any parent of a sick child. But did Maya really have a deadly disease for which she required the massive amounts of ketamine and other drugs she was being given? Was the hospital unfairly biased against Beata Kowalski because she was difficult, or was something more sinister at play?
We talk to national law enforcement expert on medical child abuse, Detective Mike Weber, as well as a Florida pediatrician who helps us unravel some of the myriad strange details about Maya’s medical history.
The beginning of our multi-part deep dive into the case reveals the shocking events that led up to the family separation.
Produced by Larj Media
Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop
Buy Andrea’s books here.
To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free.
For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com
Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.
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Sponsored by:
*Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit
Go to HelloFresh.com/50believe and use code 50believe for 50% off your first order plus 15% off the next 2 months!
*Brilliant Earth
Well-made and responsibly sourced. Find beautiful, unique styles at BrilliantEarth.com.
*Who Killed Mia (Relatable)
Get Who Killed Mia for your next game night, and get 20% off with promo code BELIEVE at Relatable.com/whokilledmia.
Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.
*Better Help
To be matched with a licensed therapist, visit Betterhelp.com/BelieveMe to get 10% off your first month.
*FACTOR MEALS
Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
In a Heartbeat
In our third episode, we look at a central piece of the story that was left unfinished at the time of Beata Kowalski’s death: the police investigation into her for medical child abuse.
Along with Detective Mike Weber and our anonymous Florida pediatrician friend, we unpack shocking new details from the police investigation and from Jack Kowalski’s interview the Detective Stephanie Graham. Was Jack really just being pressured to throw his wife under the bus? Or did he have suspicions of his own about her?
We also unpack some of the many discrepancies in Maya's medical history and the troubling behaviors of her mother Beata, showing that that this pattern of deceptive behavior went way beyond the question of whether her daughter’s diagnosis of CRPS was correct or not
As the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children’s trial unfolds in real time, we examine the facts of the case as they stood when Beata died and show how the prevailing media narrative about this case is getting it all wrong.
To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.
Produced by Larj Media
Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop
Buy Andrea’s books here.
For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com
Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.
***
Sponsored by:
*Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit
Go to HelloFresh.com/50believe and use code 50believe for 50% off your first order plus 15% off the next 2 months!
*Brilliant Earth
Well-made and responsibly sourced. Find beautiful, unique styles at BrilliantEarth.com.
*Who Killed Mia (Relatable)
*Better Help
To be matched with a licensed therapist, visit Betterhelp.com/BelieveMe to get 10% off your first month.
*FACTOR MEALS
Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
Retaliation
Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse and suicide. Listener discretion is advised.
Beata Kowalski’s tragic death by suicide in January of 2016 is at the center of the $220 million lawsuit Jack Kowalski has filed against Johns Hopkins All Childrens hospital. But did Beata really take her own life to free her daughter from the hospital keeping her captive as the plaintiff claims? As with everything in this story, the truth is much more complicated. The narrative told in the Netflix film “Take Care of Maya” is far from a complete picture of the harrowing series of events that led to Beata’s death.
In this episode we go through the police reports of the incident and various testimonies of those who were present to fill in the gaps of the days and hours leading up to Beata’s death. We also examine the final court hearing Beata attended, which gives us a glimpse into where the case stood at the time of her death.
To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial.
Produced by Larj Media
Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop
Buy Andrea’s books here.
For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com
Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.
***
Sponsored by:
*Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit
Go to HelloFresh.com/50believe and use code 50believe for 50% off your first order plus 15% off the next 2 months!
*Brilliant Earth
Well-made and responsibly sourced. Find beautiful, unique styles at BrilliantEarth.com.
*Better Help
To be matched with a licensed therapist, visit Betterhelp.com/BelieveMe to get 10% off your first month.
*FACTOR MEALS
Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices -
The Women
In the flattened version of the Maya Kowalski story that has dominated the headlines, Beata Kowalski is a mother who fell prey to age-old biases against women. This story attaches itself to the well-documented reality that women are all too often not believed when it comes to their own pain, the stories of their own lives, and their professional opinions. Beata is cast as the martyr in Netflix’s “Take Care of Maya” and two other women, Cathy Beady and Dr. Sally Smith, are cast as the villains. Today, we unpack the messy gender dynamics of this case.
Cathy Beady is the social worker with a troubling past who’s been accused of grooming and assaulting Maya Kowalski. What do we know about what happened during Maya’s stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens? Was Cathy Beady really hellbent on keeping Maya and Beata apart?
Media coverage of the Maya Kowalski story has also done irreparable harm to the life and career of the respected doctor at the center of the controversy: child abuse pediatrician Sally Smith. She’s been accused of violating HIPPA in a single-minded crusade to create a case against Beata Kowalski. But is there evidence that Dr. Smith did anything other than her job? Did she drive Beata to death as the film suggests or is it possible her interventions saved Maya Kowalski’s life?
As we break down the narratives and misinformation surrounding this case we get to the heart of the matter. The Kowalski legal team’s claims that Munchausen by proxy is based on “junk science” and that Beata Kowalski wasn’t guilty of medical child abuse because this form of abuse isn’t even real.
To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free, including weekly recaps of the Kowalski trial. Produced by Larj Media
Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop
Buy Andrea’s books here.
For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com
Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here.
***
Sponsored by:
*Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit
Go to HelloFresh.com/50believe and use code 50believe for 50% off your first order plus 15% off the next 2 months!
*Brilliant Earth
Well-made and responsibly sourced. Find beautiful, unique styles at BrilliantEarth.com.
*Who Killed Mia (Relatable)
Get Who Killed Mia for your next game night, and get 20% off with promo code BELIEVE at Relatable.com/whokilledmia.
Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised.
*Better Help
To be matched with a licensed therapist, visit Betterhelp.com/BelieveMe to get 10% off your first month.
*FACTOR MEALS
Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Customer Reviews
Eye opening and very well done
Andrea, you’ve done a great job on season 3. This podcast is compelling, well written and thorough. Thank you for creating awareness and promoting the safety of children.
Biased from season 1
I won’t make it to season 3, because even in season 1, the red flags of bias were present. There was zero questioning about the “ecosystem” created between Cooks Children’s and the cops and the 10 fold increase in cases being investigated since a team was created to look for it? I believe this is a very real and serious condition, but I’m not buying the “widespread” nature of it. It sounds like an ecosystem that’s ripe for abuse and puts mothers and children looking for genuine help at risk.
Well done but biased?
Eye-opening and well done, but I feel like, with Maya’s case, that the host was determined from the beginning to assume Maya’s mother was abusive, because she’s primed to do. I feel like she doesn’t seriously consider evidence to the contrary because she’s so clouded by her personal experience. And it seems like she gets experts to back up her theories. It would give her reporting more credibility if she talked to experts who disagree with her POV. Every episode is trying to prove, almost too hard, that the other side is wrong and she glosses over evidence to the contrary. I feel like she’s on a mission to convince people she’s right, rather than genuinely looking at all sides of the case. Perhaps it’s not all so black and white. I mean, even the text messages, she seems to think if doctors are insensitive they lose credibility. But frankly, even with their explanations about the texts, there’s no planet where calling a child “ketamine girl” is not insensitive. That doesn’t mean the doctor’s recommendations are wrong, or right, for that matter. Frankly, any doctor’s attitude in this case seems irrelevant to the facts. The fact that the host tries to defend their reputation to this degree wreaks of a clouded determination to prove she’s right. I’m assuming this is due to an overarching fear that if doctors in Maya’s case were wrong for believing her mother was abusive, it would put other victims at risk.
She even tries to defend the courts for not letting Maya’s mother hug her. But allowing a hug in no way presented any sort of physical threat and would’ve done Maya, who missed her mother, a world good.
Between the “extreme” sides of the docu and this podcast, I am no closer to knowing what to think about Maya’s situation. I tend to think the docu people knew the case better because of how long they spent on it and how they talked to various experts. Therefore, I’m more inclined to believe Nobody Should Believe This Podcast (at least season 3).